riverpogrow 发表于 2013-1-11 12:21 static/image/common/back.gif
E文不行啊！
我帮你发到AoCZone上怎么样？
顶一个，~~~~~~~~~~~~~
发到官网反应如何
相当不错的一篇文章，我也是一个终极匈奴迷，在所有民族的对战中我最擅长使用匈奴，对此，我发表几点：
1.匈奴无住房的优势在AOFE中已经平衡，匈奴无城墙，也就是说匈奴只能玩游牧了，但是游牧不是匈奴的擅长，碰上玛雅之类的民族还好说，一旦遇到法兰克，波斯，条顿之类的骑兵肉盾型民族简直无力，只能玩偷袭战术，在兵营里造一大堆匈骑，然后不管三七二十一往敌人基地里冲，能砍掉多少建筑算多少。
2.个人认为匈奴还是在后期以轻骑流为主，不停地暴轻骑，但是食物补给一定要充足，并且一定要让一大堆农民采木（原因见下）因为轻骑的最大一个优势就是砍一些人见人烦的兵，比如僧侣，投石机/车等，并且攻击力在后期聚集也是相当可观的，不太赞成骑射流，而轻骑制造不需要黄金，所以可以赶紧时间研究无神论，目的为的是间谍，匈骑只有在破城时再大肆制造，将攒下来的黄金，并将所有采来的木全部换成黄金研究间谍，然后可以稍微放慢进攻，将黄金木头资源缓和一阵再发动总攻，必赢！
3.如果团队作战，最好有法兰克之类的盟友，为你源源不断的提供保护与支援，他们负责出圣殿骑兵，你负责轻骑，黄金很快便会攒够出间谍，坐等胜利吧！
菜鸟见解……还望见谅……
看到DLUT几个字....学长好....学长辛苦了....
yty 发表于 2013-1-11 14:10 static/image/common/back.gif
我帮你发到AoCZone上怎么样？
ok !{:155:}
不用费劲翻译了，除了去BUG跟微调，AOFE不会再做出大改动了
其实官方最应该想的是怎么让匈奴的墙壁回来又可以保持平衡，毕竟匈奴没有石墙，这个变动算太大了
riverpogrow 发表于 2013-1-13 20:46 static/image/common/back.gif
ok !
Suggestions for AoFE from a 14-year veteran I am an absolute veteran of AoC. I fell inlove with AoK at its birth in 1999. From the very beginning of IP connection onthe Asian League to fighting with foreigners on MSN Gaming Zone, I lost myselfin AoE2 during my middle school time and failed in the College Admission Examinationin 2002… I peaked 1800+ in MSN Zone. Following are some of my articles on theAsian League with the ID of riverpogrow and riverpogrom: “Trush --- the doom of Flush?”https://www.clubstars.cn/diguoshidai/zhanshutaolun/201105/2293.html“About the moving speed of AoC units”https://www.clubstars.cn/diguoshidai/danweiziliao/201105/2586.html“Issues about ranged units in AoC”https://bbs.dlut.edu.cn/bbsanc.php?path=%2Fgroups%2FGROUP_9%2FFightOnLine%2Fyxlt%2Fdf%2Fgsld%2FM.1016801674.A ============ I listed the above not to boast myself butto show my passion over the game and prove that my suggestions are concludedafter many years’ battle experience rather than out of nowhere. I hope USC_Kikywill pass these on to Cysion to consider the feasibility of my suggestions. Fact 1: Huns take too much advantagewithout need of houses. Suggestion 1: House building takes halftime.Suggestion 2: House has +2 LOS.Suggestion 3: One house provides for 10 poplimit. Explanations: What’s the most benefit of nohouses needed for Huns? During early stage, every military unit would beapportioned 6 woods considering house resource costs. One villager must bebuilding houses continually otherwise military units training would beinterrupted during Feudal Age. As a whole, every military unit saves 6 pointsof resource for Huns, plus one extra villager and fewer controls. Houses forother civ should cost less, build faster, hold more pop to balance. Fact 2: Unique Units of most civs rarelyappear except in DM and noob games. Suggestion 1: Let every civ have Anarchy!Suggestion 2: With Anarchy popularized, slightlyraise the cost of War Elephants, Elephant Archers and War Wagons. Explanations: It would be no harm forbalance to popularize UUs, giving some limits to WE, EA and WW. UUs will neverdominate the map if ordinary buildings (other than Castle) cannot train them.Cataphracts are destructive but nobody can see them in a normal game betweenmasters. Fact 3: Hussars have dominant disturbingabilities. 5 or 6 Huns Hussars would make enemy farmers garrisoned in TC doingno farm work at all. The food lost due to disturbance far exceeds the cost of theseHussars. It’s even more important to disturb enemy farming using Hussars thanwinning on frontal battlefields. Suggestion 1: TC, Towers and Castles havedouble or triple attacking bonus vs. Hussars.Suggestion 2: Raise attack and lower piercearmor and HP of Hussars. Explanations: Light Cavalries are born todisturb enemies, but they can easily slide into center regions of enemy town tomurder farmers which is a little bit too much. The harm done by these disturbancesexceeds winning on the front. What’s in my suggestions is that Hussars can lootunprotected Lumber and Mine Camps but fail to invade Castle protected farms. Fact 4: Skirmishers are the weakest inthree junk units (Skirmishers, Halberdiers and Hussars).Suggestion 1: Add an “Imperial Skirmisher”upgrade in imp.Suggestion 2: Add bonus attack ofSkirmishers vs. WW and Ele Archers. =============== I have something to say about adjustmentson Camels and CAs.Camels and CAs have a relatively lowappearing chance. AoFE lowers their cost, which I think is not enough. Few players would like to train Camels sofirst I list some of the drawbacks of Camels: a. Camels have a high cost while the use islimited. If you train few Camels, the enemy would not suffer a loss evenfighting your Camels with Knights. If you train many Camels, the enemy wouldturn into other unit lines, which Camels are useless to fight. b. We say that Camels beat Cavalries, butwhen it comes to combination and cooperation, Knights with Archers beat Camelswith Archers. For example, Mongol, Chinese or Saracen Camels with Archers vs.Huns Paladins with Archers. All Huns need to do is fast approaching followed byretreating, Camels will soon die off under the shots. So it’s of little help to raise thepracticability of Camels just by lowering a bit cost. Camels should not fear rangedarrows to ensure equality with Archers vs. Paladins with Archers. Indian bonusof armor is a good start. Then about Cavalry Archers. 1. CA in Castle Age is poor. CA withKnights are inferior to pure Knights or Knights with Archers. Reason: a. CA has a poor accuracy without ThumbRing. b. CA has a high shooting delay, therefore hitand run is impossible during Castle Age. Suggestion: Add 10 HP to CA (not Elite) andlower its shooting delay. 2. CAs of some civs are bug-like in postImperial. Reason:a. CAs are natural enemies of Archers, HandCannoneers, Infantries, Hussars, Knights with low armors and Camels. b. No units except Skirmishers hasadvantages over CAs. Take Huns CA for example. CA costs only 30Woods and 49 Golds, similar to cost of Archers, with higher attack thanArbalests, double HP of Arbalests. Infantry or archer civs like Briton, Vikingsand Chinese have no solution facing a group of CAs with Halberdiers andHussars.Suggestion 1: Thumb Ring is a must forBriton. British Archers and Longbowmen has little power to beat reinforcedsoldiers and cavalries. Suggestion 2: Boost Skirmishers and ImperialSkirmishers’ bonus attack vs. CAs and Ele Archers. Skirmishers are to CAs whatSpearmen are to Knights. Suggestion 3: CAs should not be cheapenedto be mixed with Archers. They should cost even more and has higher battlingpower to distinguish themselves with Archers. Suggestion 4: Would it be feasible to raisea little HP of Archers and let them has anti-archer-attack bonus defense? Arbalestsperform poor in terms of resources vs. Champions and Hussars, not to mentionsuppressed by Siege and Skirmishers. ================ General Adjustments:1. Raise 10 HP of CAs rather than lowertheir cost.2. Briton goes through a loss from AoK toAoC. Solution is simple: give Thumb Ring back to it!3. CA’s shooting delay is too high! Let itbe the same as Mongudai’s. 4. Scorpion has +20 bonus attack vs. WarElephants instead of +8.5. Let Mongol has the most powerful CAs.Make Ring archer armor available and modify the first civ bonus to be bonusattack or range of CAs. 6. UT of Slavs makes Boyars attack adjacentunits instead of infantries. 7. Magyar Hussars cost 110 foods.8. UT of Teutons raises Teutonic Knights’moving speed.9. Add “Advanced Loom” in Imp, adding extraHP and armor for villagers.10. Add attack to towers, especially Guardtowers and Keeps. Lower HP and armor of towers.11. Chinese Rocketry applies also toArchers and CAs. =============== No matter Cysion takes my suggestions ornot, I want to express my most sincere thanks to all AoFE producers! I have not played AoE2 for quite a longtime; never did I expect there would be a brand new expansion pack in the endof 2012. Thanks again for all AoFE makers’ unprecedented efforts! It’s you thatin year 2013 make me recall my unforgettable times many years ago. Wish a happy new year to all AoFE makers!
本帖最后由 housongqi 于 2013-1-14 15:27 编辑
游戏情况：绝大部分民族的特色兵种都成了摆设，只有在死斗模式与菜鸟局出现。
修正建议1：请普及“无政府科技”吧！
修正建议2：在拥有“无政府科技”的情况下，适当提高波斯战象、印度象射、高丽战车的价格。
在普通建筑中的特色单位可以比城堡中的贵一些。城堡中的单位没必要涨价。（希望我没理解错）
我希望骑兵能削弱一些。多人游戏中每次都是几十个几十个骑兵上去把别人家拆了。
建筑护甲加强些。
还有就是城堡建筑速度可以减慢些。哪有打仗时在别人家门口建一堆城堡的。
比较同意房子支持10人口，但是无政府科技不见会平衡，想象一下马扎尔要是有了无政府，那就是肉马第一国。
JKXANDWSJ 发表于 2013-1-14 17:11 static/image/common/back.gif
比较同意房子支持10人口，但是无政府科技不见会平衡，想象一下马扎尔要是有了无政府，那就是肉马第一国。
所以俺说马扎儿的肉马最好是110粮食或者 120粮食。
其实从大局来说，更应该从民族特点方面下手，例如进攻型步兵民族，前期弱势，但后期很有爆发力，而有的弓箭民族前期强，而越到后期越疲软。
平衡性方面总不能面面俱到，把民族多样性做好，之间的差异与特色很鲜明，好比楼主提到的匈奴，不用造房子，游击拆家，由民族特性来确定目标的明确性，这不是很好吗。
我就看看你们谈论吧
yty 发表于 2013-1-14 11:20
Suggestions for AoFE from a 14-year veteran I am an absolute veteran of AoC. I fell inlove with Ao ...
翻译太强了!你是英语专业吗?看完以后我就想到自己学那么多年英语说的还是chinglish 句式上也是为了使句子看起来更复杂一些而生硬的把简单句连接起来
本帖最后由 yty 于 2013-1-15 09:01 编辑
本楼反馈发表在AoCZone上的回复。地址：https://www.aoczone.net/viewtopic.php?f=638&t=84725
2楼 by CSA_B_Bee
3. then why would you build magundais at all? might as well get loads of ranges instead of castles
5. mongol have powerful magundai, arguably the most powerful ca, they don't need the top CA line as well really.
9. spanish UT? - i think having villagers have an 'aggressive' mode wher they fight back when you research supremacy would be good
10. i like this idea, keeps are useless. FE tried to bolster towers with one of the new UTs for one of the civs...i think it should become more widely available
11. would be nice actually
my 2cents from a rrokhttps://www.aoczone.net/images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif
3. 这样的话你还用的着造蒙古骑射手么？这样还不如直接爆靶场，不用造城堡了。
5. 蒙古有最强的蒙古骑射手，虽然存在争议，但基本上是战斗力最强的骑射了，蒙古不需要顶级的靶场骑射系。
9. 那西班牙霸权怎么办？我认为升级霸权之后让村民在战斗中增加一个“进攻”模式比较合适。
10. 我支持这个主意，箭塔现在毫无用处。AoFE为了增加箭塔的存在感，给一个民族（日本——译者注）增加了特色科技……我认为这一点可以推广到其他民族。
11. 这个主意确实不错。
3楼 by coolermaster
I respectfully disagree with almost all of your suggestions.Also, houses cost less now at 25 wood and CA had their cost reduced.Let's give these changes some time to see how they turn out.Thumb ring to Britons could be useful though (they need something).
我恭敬地不敢苟同几乎你的所有建议。住房现在已经降价为25木材了，骑射手也有所打折。让我们给这些改变一点时间来看看事情运转的如何。把指环还给不列颠可能有用（他们需要这个）。
4楼 by Ritesh
Well, for as long as voobly delays the rating implementation for aofe, we have very little input/games to assess the changes that have been made in aofe as nearly everyone high up the ladder are waiting for the game to go rated before exploring aofe.We should look at the current changes and then make adjustments, we need more replays for that :S.
I'm baffled by how people have been manipulated to stay in aoc rooms, simply based on ratings availability.And note that the new tgs rate system that voobly decided on is absolutely bonkers and meaningless.
嗯，现在的情况是Voobly推迟了AoFE中的打局积分系统，鉴于基本上所有高玩在新资料片缺乏积分系统的情况下就不会有探索AoFE的打算，我们只有很少的途径（即足够多的游戏测试）来评价AoFE中做出的改动。现在我们应该关注现有的改变，并做出相应修订，但是我们需要更多的测试。:S
人们固执地扎根于AoC游戏房间，只是因为AoFE的积分系统没有推出，这点也困扰着我。而且再考虑到Voobly的新积分系统简直是一团糟，毫无意义可言，这就更令人无奈了。
5楼 byMarauder
Its my understand that Cysion and Elusive have been working on getting a rating system for AoFE up and running for the past few weeks. Hang in there it will be done soon.
As for the rating system for RM which voobly just implemented, it was completely devised by players like TheViper, Jordan_23, and chris who joined the voobly staff in order to create a fair system for RM. Suggestions were taken from many prominent people in the RM community and it was agreed that it was the most viable option to keep the RM rating system accurate.
我的理解是Cysion和Elusive过去几周时间里一直在致力于为AoFE开发积分系统的工作。请持续关注开发进展，想必不久的将来就会开发完毕。
至于Voobly最近实现的随机地图积分系统，完全是由像TheViper、Jordan_23和chris这样的高玩设计的，他们加入了Voobly团队，就是要创设一个随机地图模式中公平的积分机制。积分系统推出过程中参考了随机地图社区中诸多知名玩家的建议，大家一致同意这种方案是让随机地图积分系统最公平准确的可行选择了。
6楼 by ColdMan
the game is not even ready yet, many stupid bugs have to be fixed before you put rating on.
这个资料片还没做好准备就发布了。在推出积分系统之前，先把愚蠢的bug修复好吧。
7楼 by Aguruchi
You do not need a number to assess your level of play....
Nice suggestions vet!Some good, some not applicable imo.
Glad to c there are others out thar!
你不必用一个数字来评价你的游戏水平的……
老玩家，这些建议不错！在我看来，有一些可行，有一些未必可行。
很高兴看到这里不断有人加入！
8楼 by BuzZ_Quiller
Anarchy for all civs ftw, I do want that!
普及无政府科技棒极了，我喜欢！
9楼 by the_Dragondisagree with all全都不同意。
这些建议本来就少有亮点，更多是破坏平衡的做法，发到哪都一样的，翻译辛苦了，顶
你们就慢慢研究平衡吧，这是个超难的问题。
yty 发表于 2013-1-14 11:20 static/image/common/back.gif
Suggestions for AoFE from a 14-year veteran I am an absolute veteran of AoC. I fell inlove with Ao ...
如果M大有心情，可以把一些评论也发上去，毕竟评论里也有不少好的建议和对原作者建议的理性的评价 希望帝国越来越好
我同意qs前面的一句评论，没有必要刻意追求平衡。
C版的平衡性已经不错了，很多时候对于其中一项的改动，会造成牵一发动全身的问题，希望多多琢磨。个人感觉很多改动没有必要，只需换种方式去看就好。